Snub Training – Replacing CTC Laser Stocks

September 24, 2009
CTC LS 205 Laser Stocks

CTC LS 205 Laser Stocks

What is your preference, the LG 105 or the LG 405 for a replacement of the LG 205 on a J frame?

Thanks for your help.

Mark L. 

 

Dear Mark:

I hope this note finds you well.

Thank you for the great question.

Personally I love the 205s I have on my J-frames. -They are the ONLY CTC lasers with a proper cut-out for use with speedloaders. – But they won’t/don’t last forever.

CTC LG 105 laser stocks

CTC LG 105 laser stocks

Regarding you question, if I had to replace the 205 I would lean toward the 105.

CTC LS 405 Laser Stocks

CTC LS 405 Laser Stocks

The 405 isn’t a bad item but the back-strap is covered with rubber. Nice (if marginal) for reducing recoil but it also reduces the snub’s deep concealability.

The rubber also tends to catch cover-clothing (prints) and can reduce draw-stroke speed. 

They both offer a sad excuse for a dished out area for speedloaders. The 405 has a very slight advantage in this area but the hard plastic on the 105 lends itself to some light Dremel work. A few light passes with the Dremel tool and you can get the 105 to work nearly as well as the old 205.

The only other complaint I have with the 105 is the very odd “bird-heads” style stock configuration.

The convex area where the laser’s on/off button is located is smaller in circumference than the circumference at the base of the stock’s butt area. 

The best way to understand the problem with this is to make a tight fist and gauge your strength. Then make a second fist but leave your ring finger extended.

The second fist will never be a strong as the first as long as the ring finger is prevented from curling in tight and under your middle finger.

The bird-heads flaring on the base of the 105 stock produces this result.

I few light passes with the Dremel tool on the base of the 105 stocks can reduce this defect.

Please note that you may not need to reduce the circumference on the base of the 105 stocks. Some shooters say that after awhile they no longer even note the issue.

But if after a few months of working with the 105 as compared with 205 you may want to address it.

Thank you again for the questions.

I hope this information is of some value.

Yours,

Michael

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Snub Training – Werner Carry System*

July 13, 2009

Whether you don’t ever expect to take the snub out of the house or the office or if you carry it in either an ankle or a pocket holster some form of post-encounter weapon securing method is still important. Now there are several very popular methods for securing a snub on your person. Two of the best for those snubs than don’t have a dedicated holster or for those owners who might find returning their snub in their deep concealment carry location awkward include Skyline Technology’s Clipdraw from John Rugh and the Barami Hip-Grip available through Barami Hip-Grip

Related to the Barami Hip-Grip is an idea from my friend, fellow snub trainer and arch competitor Claude Werner. He worked up a great combination idea for mating the snub + a Tyler T grip + a Barami Hip-grip + Hogue Handall Jr. Author Ed Lovette praised it in the September 2008 issue of Combat Handguns.  I call it the Werner Carry System* though others refer to it as a Werner Setup.

The directions are simple:

1 - Remove the snub's current set of stocks.

1 - Remove the snub's current set of stocks.

1 – Remove the snub’s current set of stocks.

2 - Insert an appropriate sized Tyler T grip adaptor.

2 - Insert an appropriate sized Tyler T grip adaptor.

2 – Insert an appropriate sized Tyler T grip adaptor.

3 - Note that the brass flanges of the Tyler T Grip adaptor are not bent around the frame. The friction from re-attaching the stocks will be sufficient enough to secure the Tyler T Grip.

3 - Note that the brass flanges of the Tyler T Grip adaptor are not bent around the frame. The friction from re-attaching the stocks will be sufficient enough to secure the Tyler T Grip.

3 – Note that the brass flanges of the Tyler T Grip adaptor are not bent around the frame. The friction from re-attaching the stocks will be sufficient enough to secure the Tyler T Grip.

4 - Fit a set of the appropriate sized Barami Hip-Grips and screw them in place.

4 - Fit a set of the appropriate sized Barami Hip-Grips and screw them in place.

4 – Fit a set of the appropriate sized Barami Hip-Grips and screw them in place.

5 - Slip a set of Hogue Handall Jr., grip sleeve over the Barami Hip-Grip and the Tyler T Grip. Note that the grip sleeve is inverted for optimum fit.

5 - Slip a set of Hogue Handall Jr., grip sleeve over the Barami Hip-Grip and the Tyler T Grip. Note that the grip sleeve is inverted for optimum fit.

5 – Slip a set of Hogue Handall Jr., grip sleeve over the Barami Hip-Grip and the Tyler T Grip. Note that the grip sleeve is inverted for optimum fit.

6 - The finished Werner Carry System is ready to slip into a waist band.

6 - The finished Werner Carry System is ready to slip into a waist band.

6 – The finished Werner Carry System is ready to slip into a waist band.

7 - Concealed and ready to go.

7 - Concealed and ready to go.

7 – Concealed and ready to go.

You may find that the top edge of the Hogue Handall Jr., when slipped over the Barami Hip-grip and the Tyler T Grip will occasionally catch the leading edge of some speedloaders. While it is something to be aware of I would point out that Ed Lovette, author of The Snubby Book and vocal advocate for speedloaders has praised the Werner Carry System and has never noted any trouble working with it and speedloaders. I for my part, and to the complete dismay of Ed, continue to be an advocated for either the QuickStrip or the Speed Strip, either of which will never have any reloading issues with the Werner Carry System.

Either way, I like it so much that I am putting one on a Blue RINGS training gun to demo it class and another on my blue steel Bodyguard for range demos. You can view a slide show presentation on the Werner Carry System here.

*Special “Thank-you” to Claude Werner for the use of his photographs.


Snub Training – Oversized J-frame stocks

June 9, 2009

Dear Michael,

I am hoping you can provide me with a recommendation in stocks for my father. He has a new M&P 340 and finds he needs to use his middle finger on the trigger.

I have the large rubber Boot Grips from a 640-1 but these are not large enough. I recall from your class that you had some stock recommendations to improve this situation.

I noticed Sile stocks but these are not speedloader compatible. I suspect that if one needs a long and wide J-frame stock the speedloader compatible feature may need to be compromised.

Eagle Grip target grips may be the best option.

I would appreciate any recommendation you can provide.

Erich N.

Dear Eric:

I hope this note finds you well.

That is a great question … and a tough one.

The problem is that the J-frame Smith and Wesson revolver descended from the I-frame Smith and Wesson revolver and both were built for a woman’s hand.

What you might need is a revolver stock that will fit onto a J-frame, extend the butt, will cover in the back strap in order to extend the trigger reach to the length of a K-frame (built for a man’s hand), scalloped out one side of the stock to work with speedloaders and ideally not be made of a rubber like material that would compromise concealability.

Given all that I would recommend Hogue’s J-frame Round Butt Nylon Mono-Grips.

http://www.hoguestore.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=J+frame

It does nearly everything you need. The only place I think it is a little “weak” is in being insufficiently scalloped for speed loaders. The scalloping is better than “adequate” but it is not what I would call great.

If you order one (about $25.00) be very sure to get the nylon one and not the rubber one. And watch out for the many wood J-frame stocks they offer. They are all well made but none of the J-frame wood stocks cover the back strap, and you will want that feature if you have large hands.

It you try one out let me know how it works out.

Thank you again for the great question.

I hope this information helps.

Yours,

Michael de Bethencourt
info@SnubTraining.com
http://www.SnubTraining.com
http://www.SnubTraining.com_blog


Snub Training – Pachmayr Stocks

May 31, 2009

Hello Michael:

I would like to extend the grip on my 438 J-frame.  The Pachmayr Gripper and the Pachmayr Gripper Decelerator would both do that.

Do you have a preference (or other suggestions)?

Steve G.

 

Dear Steve:

I hope this note finds you well.

A great question

Here are my thoughts – They’re free so they’re worth what you’re paying for.

I confirmed with the Pachmayr web page and there are four options for the J-frame in rubber.

The Gripper, The Decelerator Gripper, The Compac, and the Compac Professional

Pachmayr Gripper stock

Pachmayr Gripper stock

Both the Gripper and the Decelerator Gripper have finger groves which can slow down a fast draw (See Bill Jordan’s book for more) and weaken a firm grip by open the shooter’s grasp slightly more so than will stocks without finger groves.

Pachmayr Gripper Decelerator stock

Pachmayr Gripper Decelerator stock

The Decelerator Gripper has a covered back-strap which offers better recoil reduction. Subsequently it is a little larger and when fitted on a J-frame it tends to fit a man’s hand size better than the basic Gripper.

Pachmayr Compact Professional

Pachmayr Compact Professional

The Compac and the Compac Professional are divided along the same lines. The Compac Professional has an exposed back-strap and the Compact has a covered back-strap.

Regarding the Gripper vs. the Decelerator Gripper – each offers a substantial amount of rubber so either might also fulfill your need for a longer or larger set of stocks.

Pachmayr Compac stock

Pachmayr Compac stock

Several under cover police detectives I respect choose the Compac for their J-frame Smith and Wessons and D-frame Colts over the other Pachmayr options.

The Compac features enough material to give a man’s hand enough purchase on the stocks/handgun and it has no finger groves to slow the grasp or weaken the grip.

There is enough material to aid in weapon retention when fitted on a home defense J-frame and yet does not have too much material to prevent it from becoming a working set of stocks for a concealed carry gun.

If I were advising a friend I would be advocating for the Compac over the Compac Professional, the Gripper or the Decelerator Gripper. On an appendix carried snub, it could be a winning combination.

There would always remain the issue of rubber compromising some concealment by binding or clinging to the cover garments.

Also, only Uncle Mike’s licensed copy of Spegel’s Boot Grip has a properly relieved cut-out for speedloader but working with either Bianchi’s Speed Strips or TUFF’s Quick Strips could negate some of that problem.

I hope this helps

Let me know what you finally go with and how it works out.

Yours

Michael de Bethencourt


Snub Training – Laser Max

May 22, 2009
Laser Max H-Model laser stock

Laser Max H-Model laser stock

Laser Max produces two models of J-frame sized laser stocks; the Laser Max H model and the Laser Max NH model.  The H-model will fit any J-frame revolver with an exposed hammer and the NH (No-Hammer) model will fit the hammerless J-frames such as the Centennial.  Each Laser Max laser emitter is fitted to the right side stock panel and positioned above the revolver’s cylinder putting it inline with the revolver’s bore axis.  This position reduces the parallax between the bore axis, the shooter’s line of sight and the laser’s beam.  Each Laser Max laser stock is fitted with a pair of on-off buttons set on either side of the stocks.  Both on-off buttons are set flush to prevent the laser from accidentally being switched on when the stocks are squeezed. This requires that the laser be deliberately turned on prior to any expected shooting application. This set up requires the shooter to switch on the laser an anticipation of possible self-defense situation. The Laser Max laser beam can be set to either pulse or run constant on. There is some indication that a pulsating beam is faster on target though once on target the pulsing tends to be a little bit annoying. The overwhelming majority of the student-shooters I work with prefer the laser’s beam set to constant on. The laser’s elevation and windage can be adjusted via a thin Allen wrench that is supplied. Adjustments to the laser and can be made by inserted the Allen wrench in one of the two ports on top of the laser emitter housing.


Snub Training – Crimson Trace

May 21, 2009

Crimson Trace offers the widest selection of laser stocks for snub revolvers.  Their laser stocks are built of polymer, rubber or a combination of both while their laser emitter is positioned under the revolver’s cylinder on the right side stock panel.  The activation switch is located under the revolver’s trigger guard generally midway up the stock’s front strap.  The switch can be activated with a firm grip or turned off with a slight reduction of grip pressure and activation under stress is reflexive.  The laser’s elevation and windage is adjusted via a thin allen wrench supplied with the stocks.  Because the laser emitter is positioned under the cylinder keeping the trigger finger on the revolver’s frame will block the laser’s beam and be used as a positive finger-off trigger reinforcement tool.  With the laser positioned about an inch to the right and below the snub’s bore axis some shooters wonder about barrel-sight line-laser parallax. If the shooter matches the laser with the iron sights’ point of impact at a reasonable distance of twenty feet, the shooter can then fire at targets from point blank to forty feet with a theoretical shot spread of two-inches.  Acknowledging the nature and speed of the typical violence assault a two-inch spread within a zero-to-forty foot range seems like a very reasonable range.

There are several commonly encountered Crimson Trace J-frame laser stocks. 

Crimson Trace LG-205 Laser Stocks

Crimson Trace LG-205 Laser Stocks

The LG-205 had a hard polymer checkered shell and the smallest profile and featured the smallest on-off switch. Though it was discontinued in early 2006 is was my first choice for a deep concealment and remains my favorite on my back-up snubs. 

Crimson Trace LG-305 Laser Stocks

Crimson Trace LG-305 Laser Stocks

The LG-305 is an overmold style stock with rubber covering both the backstrap and the butt of the frame.  It also features a master on-off switch distinct from the activation button.  The laser can be turned off of long term storage, transportation or for iron sight only training drills.  It is the most comfortable of the various laser stocks and fine house gun for the average sized adult male hand.

Crimson Trace LG-405 Laser Stocks

Crimson Trace LG-405 Laser Stocks

The LG-405 is a cross between the LG-205 and the LG-305. It is nearly as small as the LG-205 with the butt exposed but with a small strip of rubber covering the top half of the backstrap. Called an air pocket by the manufacturer, its function is to reduce recoil into the web of the shooter’s hand. The sides of the stocks retain the LG-205’s polymer styling to reduce possible snagging in deep concealment locations.

Crimson Trace LG-105 Laser Stocks

Crimson Trace LG-105 Laser Stocks

The LG-105 is the newest Crimson Trace laser stock. The LG-105 is another boot grip style stock though wider than either of their original LG-205 or the air pocket featured LG-405. Like the original LG-205 it reintroduces both a hard polymer shell and checkered sides. Its features a larger activation button though with a less fist-filling concavity in front of the front strap.


Snub Training – Rubber Stocks

May 20, 2009

Not everyone is a fan of rubber stocks or their derivatives (Neoprene, Santoprene, etc.,) They tend to cling to cover garments, impeding the access stroke, and their spongy “give” makes getting a optimum grip when rushed less likely. Additionally, most rubber stocks cover the snub’s backstrap in order to reduce recoil and are subsequently of such bulk as to negate much of the snub’s concealment. Almost all are just as poorly relived for speedloaders as the majority of wood or plastic stocks. Uncle Mike’s licensed copy of Spegel’s Boot Grip is the notable exception. Regardless, there is a certain percentage of snub owners who are determined to “cling” to their rubber stocks.  For those shooters I would like to offer a few tips passed along to me by several students. Hopefully these tips will at least mitigate some of the limitations of rubber stocks.

First, many shooters try to re-contour the stocks so that they will work adequately with speedloaders. Many shooters do this by trying to carve away some of the rubber material with a small knife.  The results often look like the desperate work of a starved chipmunk. Consider an alternative method. Store the rubber stocks in the freezer for a few days until they are slightly stiff. Then remove the excess material with a dremel tool®. With care, the stocks can be properly relived for speedloaders and with a fine finished look that isn’t “chewed up.”

Second, try this tip from William Bellman of Pennsylvania. To retaining the comfort of recoil absorption but to overcome the tendency of the stocks to stick in the pocket or cling to a cover garment, first clean them with lighter fluid. Only after the lighter fluid has completely dried and evaporated then paint the stocks with satin finish polyurethane. The trick is to dry the urethane in the bright sunlight. The resulting finish is smooth without being clingy while retaining the cushion “give” the original stocks offered. When these tips are applied in combination the results can produce a very servable set of rubber stocks.